Simple question about hybrid pianos

Animisha

If I play a hybrid piano, and I turn the volume down so it is not as loud as an acoustic piano, is the sound still much better than a top end digital piano?

Animisha

I think I found the answer, and it is no - regardless of me turning the volume down or not.
But it would be nice if anybody who knows more about digital pianos than I do could confirm this.

kotlos

The main difference between hybrid pianos and digital pianos is the keyboard implementation. Hybrids have almost the same key action as real pianos. Sound-wise they don't necessarily sound different and with a top-end digital they have even less of a difference, if any.
The problem in using lower volume with hybrid pianos is that the action is quite noisy (as is in real pianos) and you end up listening more the keyboard. So my answer to your question would be no, lower volume in hybrids would end up sounding worse.

bSharp

As kotlos mentioned, hybrids are more about having a better keyboard action, not sound. I had an N2 for several years and I can't say it had a better sound vs anything else. It was good enough.

TC3

If we're talking about hybrid pianos in the way that most of us use the term (focusing on the action), then probably no.

I believe Kawai markets a line of digital pianos that they call "hybrid" that is less about the action and more about combining the speaker technology with a soundboard that actually vibrates acoustically. Then ... maybe? I haven't heard on in person. However, I suspect turning the volume down would probably mitigate a lot of that anyway.

Animisha

Thank you for your answers!

The only reason I am thinking about (very loosely though) hybrid pianos is reading about how much better acoustic pianos sound compared to digital pianos. And was hopeful that a hybrid piano would sound almost as good.

I have neighbours below, above and next to me, plus a mild hearing impairment that I don't want to get worse, so unfortunately, an acoustic piano is not an option.

kotlos

Animisha If you don't mind using headphones, the sound at least in the Yamaha hybrid models is great and probably better than without headphones.

Animisha

kotlos If you don't mind using headphones

I do. To protect my ears (you know, mild hearing impairment...) I try to avoid headphones.

TC3

Animisha I get that. I have some hearing issues (tinnitus, hyperacusis) and headphones bother me a lot. I'd rather play through speakers and turn down a bit.

iternabe

Animisha I do. To protect my ears (you know, mild hearing impairment...) I try to avoid headphones.

I wonder if it is scientifically proven that headphones damage hearing more, if the sound pressure level measured at the ear is the same as non-headphone originated sound. In other word, it may just be the volume, not how it is produced or delivered?

One caveat is that is it a lot harder to accurately measure SPL of a headphone than anything else (speaker, ambient, etc) due to the enclosed placement. Maybe open-back headphones are slightly better?

Animisha

iternabe I wonder if it is scientifically proven that headphones damage hearing more, if the sound pressure level measured at the ear is the same as non-headphone originated sound.

My audiologist says that using monitors is generally less detrimental to hearing compared to headphones. This is because speakers deliver sound from a distance, reducing direct exposure to the eardrum and allowing sound to disperse more naturally.

kotlos

If an acoustic is out of the question, then you could try out a digital one as they might be good enough. The Kawai CA901 with its soundboard comes close to an acoustic. Many users like the action as well.

Animisha

I have VPC-1 with Pianoteq and beautiful monitors. I am quite happy, but I just read too often that the sound of an acoustic piano is so much better than the sound of a digital piano...

rogerch

Animisha I have VPC-1 with Pianoteq and beautiful monitors. I am quite happy, but I just read too often that the sound of an acoustic piano is so much better than the sound of a digital piano...

Hi Animisha! Whether the sound of an acoustic piano is better than the sound of a digital piano depends on the pianos being compared. I think that even an entry level digital piano will sound better than a poorly maintained acoustic piano of any kind.

I have a Kawai ES920 and a baby grand, and to me the baby grand sounds better. It's also many times more expensive and costs a lot to maintain. In 2021 I sent my piano off to a rebuilder for 6 months, and had a different baby grand as a loaner. The loaner was not in good shape and I hardly played it all. The ES920 played and sounded much better than that loaner!

I once played on a Steinway D in a concert hall, and the experience was so much better than my baby grand that I'm still haunted by it. But I still love to play on both my baby grand and on my ES920!

If you're happy with your setup I suggest sticking with it, especially since you wrote that an acoustic piano is not an option. I've never played a VPC-1 but I've read that they have excellent actions, and with good monitors you probably already have an amazing setup that's wonderful to play!

SouthPark

True. It also depends on what music is being played as well. No one music type is overall better than another. It's the combination between the instrument, and the driver, and the music and the environment etc that delivers the musical magic. Even a (example) 10 dollar piano delivers golden special music all of the time in my opinion. Because - music is special. Even playing just one note is special.

Eg. performance in G sharp :

keystring

TC3 I believe Kawai markets a line of digital pianos that they call "hybrid" that is less about the action and more about combining the speaker technology with a soundboard that actually vibrates acoustically

I have one of those. It is the same version as the hybrid without the soundboard. That hybrid is created primarily for the action. The soundboard is an extra perk on top of that, rather than instead of.

Jane

Animisha

I have VPC-1 with Pianoteq and beautiful monitors. I am quite happy, but I just read too often that the sound of an acoustic piano is so much better than the sound of a digital piano...

So what's wrong with being happy? 😃

So, consider two factors - sound and feel.
Hybrids try to approach the feel of an acoustic. Living in an apartment with cardboard walls I bought a hybrid in 2013 and felt it was a big step up from the digital pianos I'd used prior.
But some non-hybrids work very well. Below is a link I've previously posted of David Lai playing Mozart on a VPC-1.
Taushi has written that he sold his N1 hybrid and replaced it with a Casio. So there are certainly alternatives to hybrids played by quite competent pianists.

Sound, as you've seen from pianoteq, can be added in wide variety to a digital or hybrid keyboard. I occasionally use the native sounds of my N3 but have mostly been using Ivory 3 lately.

And then, what is an acoustic piano? My parents started me on a junky honky-tonk upright they'd bought for $30 that had had its player mechanism removed. It might have been fine in a bar, but there was no way to make beautiful sound on it. A few times in my life I've had the opportunity to play on a well-kept 9-foot Steinway or Yamaha.
All of those are acoustics. I'd guess that either of the 9-foot grands will have a sound much better than your setup, and my original upright a sound (and action!) much poorer.

So... budget, environment, personal taste... all are factors.

So much for your "Simple" question about hybrid pianos 😉

TC3

keystring Very cool!

On a related note, my Roland GP609 (though not billed as a hybrid piano) has a similar effect by way of the sound board and chamber. It sounds so nice at a suitable volume that I have trouble making myself turn it down ...

Animisha

Thank you all!

rogerch I've never played a VPC-1 but I've read that they have excellent actions, and with good monitors you probably already have an amazing setup that's wonderful to play!

Word! ♥️

amathusiast

Undoubtedly, there were many instances where I preferred my VPC-1/Pianoteq w/ Bechstein D282 over an acoustic. When I was piano shopping I tried so many pianos that were unsatisfying. The great things about the VPC-1/Pianoteq combination (or any good digital set up) are 1.) they are always in tune, 2.) they are consistently "regulated" and voiced, 3.) you have access to the concert grand version, i.e. a beautiful sounding bass. 4) you have a model that captures the key characteristics of your favorite manufacturer, and 5.) if you record, it's easier to find a satisfying result, than tinkering with mics on a grand. Having gotten used to a digital setup, it set a really high standard for an acoustic to meet. I've had techs and salespeople tell me, I must be used to a digital, based on my expectations of consistent responsiveness and evenness of tone. Nonetheless, I found what I wanted in an acoustic and it's hard to turn back. A properly set up concert grand at home is incredibly hard to beat, as it fills the room so beautifully (assuming, it is placed properly, etc.) You feel like you are playing the room, and not just something 2 feet away from you. I know you are weary of headphones, but I found using my BeyerDynamic Semi-open headphones to work really well. Being semi-open, you can still hear ambient background noise, like birds singing outside, or for better or worse your phone going off. I could never get monitor speakers to sound right with Pianoteq, although including a subwoofer really helped.