Help me downsize my exercise book collection!

wing

Hi there! First time poster 🙂

I've been playing piano off and on for many years, but I sadly don't have much to show for it. I've had teachers who would give me repertoire, but anytime I hit a snag (like in Bach's Inventions for example), I would tell myself it's because I need to find exercises to improve my finger independence, my agility, my speed, etc. You could even say I became an exercise junkie. As a result I've gotten fairly good at exercises but not real music.

Now after some time off I'm getting back into piano and determined to just play music I feel inspired to play, and learn techniques from those. Especially now that I'm in my 40s I've been hit with the realization that life is too short to waste it on endless boring exercises. I'm inclined to keep a few around for warmup purposes, but I don't think I need all these. Curious what you might keep from this list, if any:

Hanon (🤢)
Isidor Philipp (independence exercises)
Beringer's Daily Technical Studies
Dohnányi's Essential Finger Exercises
Berens Training of the Left Hand
Czerny (I have several of his books and I find them dreadfully boring)
Brahms' 51 Exercises
Liszt Daily Exercises (intense!)
Lemoine Etudes
Burgmuller Etudes (op. 100 – I actually like these)

I also have various jazz exercise books too, for stride piano and ii-V-I patterns. Again, why not just play some tunes...

What would you ditch, what would you keep, and what would you focus on moving forward? Is there a world in which I donate all these books, warmup with scales & arpeggios in varied ways, and then get right to repertoire?

Thank you!

pianoloverus

Are you going to be taking lessons? A good teacher is the most important thing whether you want to learn technique from exercises or music or some combination.

wing

pianoloverus Thanks, as mentioned I have had teachers over the years. I just had an online teacher a couple months back but I told her that I wanted to play more repertoire and she literally assigned me more Hanon and Czerny. At this point I could play Hanon in all keys in my sleep but struggle with a single Bach Invention, so you can imagine my frustration with that. I have had previous teachers who continue to assign me similar exercises or fairly uninspiring etudes.

I would love to find a new teacher in the future, but for now I'm flying solo. Fortunately my overall technique and hand positions are good (according to those previous teachers), I just struggle with hands-together voice independence and left hand ostinatos, leaps etc.

lautreamont

Getting a teacher and communicating with them your struggles and ambitions might be of help.

A Bach Invention can be very difficult if you struggle with multiple voices simultaneously. He wrote loads of other pieces, like the Little Preludes, and a number of smaller pieces from his suites and Partitas might be more appropriate, given your struggles. There are tons of works by many composers that would be appropriate for your level, where you can work on the things you struggle with in a more convenient way than trying to force the issue with something that ultimately feels too difficult.

TC3

Personally? I probably wouldn't keep any of those. 😃

My own "exercise time" is devoted to sight-reading (which serves perfectly well as a warm-up), some scales / arpeggios / etc. out of the ubiquitous Alfred book, and excerpts from etudes (and maybe even the whole etude if it's actually musical enough).

If there are any of the books in your list that you actually enjoy working from, keep them. Otherwise, send them to the used book store. Life's too short!

rsl12

wing welcome to pianotell! Is it possible to hear a sample of your playing? What kind of music would you like to play? In general, I'm not fond of those types of books, since repertoire contains plenty of challenges that will improve you. However, multiple teachers have prescribed these kinds of exercises, so there must be some basis for it and I'm curious to hear what that basis might be.

Without knowing anything else, I would say keep the Burgmueller and ditch the rest. You like them and they contain plenty of challenges.

ShiroKuro

wing Welcome to Piano Tell!!

I can really relate to your post. I used to do a fair amount of exercises as well, but now I almost never do. My practice is highly repertoire-centric, and at this stage, I don't think I suffer from it. So I think you can move forward with taking exercises off your practice menu without worrying about.

However, I will say that having a good teacher, someone who is a good fit, is essential. With a teacher, I've been able to learn and polish pieces that I either wouldn't be able to do at all on my own, or that I wouldn't be able to do as well on my own. None of my recent teachers have pushed me to do exercises either, and all have agreed with my repertoire-based approach. So I'm sure there's a teacher out there who will work for you. And in my opinion, the benefits of having a good teacher are well-worth the effort it takes to find. Especially if you want to work on Inventions.

Now, as to your main query, and at the risk of sounding contradictory, I probably would not get rid of many of those books. ~~Maybe that's because I'm addicted to music books~~ For one thing I like having lots of books. For another, I've found over the years that I sometimes am looking for something, and I have it in one of those books. So even if you're not working through the exercises regularly, it might be good to keep the books. One of the biggest uses I've found for books I bought years ago is that I later end up using them for sightreading practice, so that's something might consider.

So with that said, here are my thoughts:

Hanon (🤢)

ok, maybe get rid of this one.

Isidor Philipp (independence exercises)
Beringer's Daily Technical Studies

Keep these if they look like they could be future sightreading material (I'm not familiar with them), but otherwise they can go.

Dohnányi's Essential Finger Exercises

Maybe get rid of this (I would)

Berens Training of the Left Hand

Not familiar, but I wouldn't keep such a specific (and therefore limited) book, I think.

Czerny (I have several of his books and I find them dreadfully boring)
Brahms' 51 Exercises
Liszt Daily Exercises (intense!)

I think I would keep these, future sightreading and such well-regarded materials that you may want to refer to them in the future.

Lemoine Etudes

Not familiar

Burgmuller Etudes (op. 100 – I actually like these)

Definitely keep this (first, because you like it and second because it's definitely future sightreading material)

I also have various jazz exercise books too, for stride piano and ii-V-I patterns. Again, why not just play some tunes...

I would also keep these, they could be a helpful reference to you in the future.

Again, this is what I would do, but I love having tons of music books. If you feel like the space is really needed for something else ~~just move them somewhere else in the house~~ you might decide to get rid of a few.

P.S. good luck! Getting rid of books is awfully hard!

wing

rsl12

rsl12 Is it possible to hear a sample of your playing? What kind of music would you like to play? In general, I'm not fond of those types of books, since repertoire contains plenty of challenges that will improve you. However, multiple teachers have prescribed these kinds of exercises, so there must be some basis for it and I'm curious to hear what that basis might be.

Thank you! I don't have a recording of anything recently. I will say I play a lot of jazz and improv, which is much easier for me. For example if I sit down with a band to jam or a lead sheet, I can play chords in various voicings and melodically improvise around that, fairly easily including chromatic changes. In the words of jazz people, I can "comp" with ease.

However sitting down at a piece of written sheet music, and especially something like Bach with all the independent contrapuntal voices, is one of the things I find most challenging. But also a lot of classical and romantic works have tons of independent parts and challenging leaps. I've also previously worked o bit on Mendelssohn and Schumann. In fact one of my favorite repertoire books which I'd say is on my technical level is Schumann's Album for the Young (even though I'm far from "young" lol). I can pick any piece from that which I've never played, slowly sight-read it, and then start to put it together, and usually get it in decently playable shape between a day to a week, depending on the piece and my available time. The Burgmuller pieces I mentioned usually take me around an hour of focused work to play through without issue.

As for what I'd like to play, I do love Bach! Beethoven, Schumann, Mozart. But also later romantic composers like Debussy, Ravel, Brahms, etc. And obviously I'm also interested in contemporary stuff and hybrid classical-jazz, stuff like Chick Corea (I have one of his books too), and film music like Philip Glass.

I don't know why teachers will assign me Czerny. The previous teacher I had was fairly frustrating because I actually told her I'm not a fan of Czerny having done so many of his exercise books and stuff like the School of Velocity and Exercises in Passage Playing etc. It always makes me want to just play music that sounds like that but better (i.e., Beethoven, Mozart). She acknowledged this but then at the end of our lessons kept assigning Czerny. She also spoke to me as if I'm a total beginner which I found frustrating. There was nothing wildly incorrect about my technique by the way - I wasn't flailing about with crazy contortions that needed serious foundational repair - she admitted things were looking good. So I don't know why she was having me drill Czerny passages that are 5-finger positions of C major when I can play all 12 keys, modes, complex altered scales and arpeggios etc.

This is why I quit taking lessons with her, because she was fairly expensive but would not allow me to record our lessons (over zoom) and didn't seem to listen to my goals and interests. I did re-iterate that I didn't want to continue doing Czerny assignments but she explained they were the best to isolate certain tasks. I'm sure they are very good for that, but I also feel like the in the history of piano music they aren't the only pieces I could play to isolate techniques. There has to be enjoyable music out there that could teach me the same thing – I just think she was a strong Czerny+Hanon adherent and couldn't think of anything else.

In light of that it might seem odd I like Burgmuller but I guess I would say as far as easier pieces go, they're quite musical and fun to me. They actually sound like music so it's more enjoyable for me to explore dynamics and phrasing. Also I have Bartok's Mirkokosmos which I used early on for sight-reading – I think it would be worth dusting off because I remember liking the music too!

I'm definitely hoping to find a new teacher who gets where I'm at and helps me use repertoire to get there – or at least listens to my goals and tastes and assigns me exercises/etudes that make me want to play.

wing

ShiroKuro Now, as to your main query, and at the risk of sounding contradictory, I probably would not get rid of many of those books. Maybe that's because I'm addicted to music books For one thing I like having lots of books. For another, I've found over the years that I sometimes am looking for something, and I have it in one of those books. So even if you're not working through the exercises regularly, it might be good to keep the books. One of the biggest uses I've found for books I bought years ago is that I later end up using them for sightreading practice, so that's something might consider.

Thanks for responding! I should have mentioned in my original post one of the reasons I'm itching to get rid of all these books is also because I've completely run out of shelving space - and now I have books stacked on the floor 😂 Small apartment life, unfortunately. I'm also trying to a minimalist, have fewer music books of higher quality than a ton of redundant books that I'll never get through.

I'm definitely inclined to get rid of any of the ones which emphasize actual "exercise" as in strengthening and stretching (Dohyani for example). There's no point. I'll probably get rid of Liszt because it's great but honestly overwhelming unless I were a professional concert pianist. Plus I don't have the hand span to play half the exercises in there anyway - various scales in 10ths for example. That's never gonna happen with my hand so it just takes up space lol.

As for sight-reading, I have a wealth of fun material that is real music too which I already use for that. I absolutely love sight reading Bach Chorales because they are short and beautiful and a perfect challenge with inner voice leading and chromaticism. I have one in keyboard style and another in the original chorale style which adds an extra layer of practice for mentally transposing registers on the fly.

I also have "easier" piano piece collections from various publishers, as well as jazz and musical songbooks. In short, I'm certainly not lacking in the department of stuff to read at sight – and would much rather read real music than exercises (which to be fair once my brain picks up the pattern are too easy to go on auto-pilot anyway).

I think I'm definitely gonna cut them in half. In spite of my dislike for Czerny, I might keep one of his books, but even then all of his stuff—in fact probably all of these books—can be found on IMSLP if I really change my mind about them in the future lol.

Regarding teachers, see my post above. I totally agree about finding the right one – I just haven't had such luck. I would love someone who listens and understands where I'm coming from rather than treating me like just another beginner student, cog in the machine. Someone who is excited to work with me on good repertoire and who will in fact yell at me to NOT do another exercise 😂 I'll keep looking, I'm sure they are out there...

rsl12

I see, you are a fellow all-rounder (classical+jazz). So an extra special welcome to you!

wing As for what I'd like to play, I do love Bach! Beethoven, Schumann, Mozart. But also later romantic composers like Debussy, Ravel, Brahms, etc. And obviously I'm also interested in contemporary stuff and hybrid classical-jazz, stuff like Chick Corea (I have one of his books too), and film music like Philip Glass.

wing The Burgmuller pieces I mentioned usually take me around an hour of focused work to play through without issue.

My journey was the opposite direction (classical then jazz), so take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think you need Burgmueller at all, based on what you're saying. If you want to be better at contrapunctal voices, play Bach. For pedal and pianissimo practice, play Debussy. For clean semiquavers, play Mozart. If you do keep Burgmueller, I suggest not playing through all of them for an hour, but just picking one etude (maybe even 4 measures) a day--something that helps you focus on whatever technical problem is giving you trouble, and practicing it for no more than 5-20 minutes.

wing This is why I quit taking lessons with her, because she was fairly expensive but would not allow me to record our lessons (over zoom) and didn't seem to listen to my goals and interests.

Sorry you had such a bad experience!!

ShiroKuro

wing I've completely run out of shelving space - and now I have books stacked on the floor

Ugh, ok that makes it challenging... I say keep the jazz books, Brahms, Burgmuller and maybe that's it...

Wait, even better! Get a tablet, digitize the above books (and maybe some others) and then get rid of the physical books.

I was actually just thinking about trying to see if there are any local print shops that will take my book of Bach Chorales (456 pages!!) and digitize it into a pdf (or a few pdfs) for me.

As for your experience with teachers, I'm really sorry! I have had many teachers over the years. And I've changed teachers a lot, between me moving, or them moving, so perhaps I have gotten better at the initial "assessment," but it's been a long time since I've had a teacher who just didn't work out. Well, actually that's not entirely true... I had a horrible teacher two summers ago, but I switched after one lesson. 😅

During the pandemic, I had an online teacher who was practically neurotic about wanting to not be recorded. He would bring it up at the beginning of each lesson and was practically accusatory, and I felt like it made it hard to form a trusting relationship with him. There were also other things that made me uncomfortable with him, so I didn't work with him very long...

Anyway, keep us posted, about the books and the teacher search! 🙂

TulipAcid

I have the same problem, except my excess books are repertoire, some of which is more than a stretch for my capabilities, and, at 67, I’m unlikely to progress THAT much! Others, I’m meh about.

Also, I’m to the point that paper irks me and I’d rather mark up a digital copy than mark up paper.

I think I’ll keep the Bach, Mozart, Scarlatti, some Brahms, Mendelsohn’s Songs without Words. Scan some of the goodies from the other books.

Fortunately, I can show up at orchestra rehearsal and find some takers for some things.

pianoloverus

It's fine if you don't want to practice any exercises anymore(although I don't think a reasonable amount of exercises are necessarily bad). Even if you feel your technique is reasonably good I think it's a mistake not to try and find a good teacher. You said that certain types of classical music pose problems for you, and this is exactly the type of thing a good teacher can help you with. You may have technical issues you are not aware of, and, of course, there's a LOT more to classical music than solving technical problems. Musical errors are not as obvious as technical errors, but everyone needs help with the part of playing music that's not just technical. It seems to me, since you are an adult, that you can certainly make it a requirement that any teacher you study with agrees ahead of time that you will work on non exercises only.

Simonb

I'm not going to tell you what to ditch since I don't own, or have never used a lot of them.

But from your list I do own and have used Hanon (a lot over the years) and Dohnanyi (a little). The Dohnanyi was recommended to me by my Piano Teacher's son. That may sound odd, but he's 20 and is about to graduate from the Royal Academy of Music in London, and is following in his father's footsteps to become a concert Pianist (he's much better than his Mum 🙃) I recently had a lesson with his father who recommended some of the Brahms exercises.

I generally run through some scales every day, major and both H & M minor.

If you like playing Songs/Jazz/Broadway tunes/Beatles or anything else non-classical play it. Playing the music you like will encourage you to practise.

To be honest I never think about 'repertoire', I've always just played the music I like. Though this is largely because I'm too busy playing in various bands to have time to develop any sort of repertoire.

For classical playing the best thing that ever happened to me was finding my last Teacher (and her incredible family), nearly 4 years ago.

Cheers

ShiroKuro

@Simonb ’s post reminds me that I meant to ask about Dohnanyi. Pardon my ignorance, but is this an entire book? Years ago I had a teacher who gave me “ Dohnanyi exercises,” which as I recall was either one page, or one double-sided sheet. I remember that I worked on it a bit, as in, I practiced the exercises at the beginning of each practice session for maybe a month or two, but probably not much longer. That was easily 10 years ago (if not more) and at this point, I can’t call the exercises to mind. But I do recall that I found doing them to be incredibly unpleasant, in the way that I currently find working out with weights and doing PT for my foot to be incredibly unpleasant. But at the end (of Dohnanyi and of PT), I always feel like I’ve done something really good for my body. 😅

So, back to Dohnanyi, how long is the book? And is my memory correct, are they yucky but beneficial?

Simonb

Hi ShiroKuro

Dohanyi consists of 40 exercises over 50 pages. Some of them are very difficult (for me anyway).

I think doing them consistently would be hugely beneficial. But as per the OP, the balance between the amount of time it would take (for me) to get some of the advanced ones fluid might not be worth the effort. At this stage anyway....

Cheers

ShiroKuro

Simonb Dohanyi consists of 40 exercises over 50 pages. Some of them are very difficult (for me anyway).

OMG based on my memory of that one sheet, this sounds horrible! 😃

I think doing them consistently would be hugely beneficial. But as per the OP, the balance between the amount of time it would take (for me) to get some of the advanced ones fluid might not be worth the effort.

This would be my conclusion as well. I’m happy with what and how I’m practicing right now. When I add something to my practice routine that isn’t repertoire, it’s generally sightreading. That’s the only non-repertoire thing I’m willing to devote time to at the moment.