putting the "play" back in "playing" ...

TC3

I’ve noticed that when I play piano as a performance – whether for people in a live situation or recording to share online – I’m so focused on playing correctly that it takes all the fun out of it. Not just fun, but the musicality as well. When I play just for myself, I’ll find myself really getting into the music, and expressing myself through the music so much better, but that just disappears when I have an audience of one kind or another.

It’s not just performance anxiety or nerves either – this can happen even when I feel completely confident in the piece and have no worries about screwing up, people judging me, etc. I just can’t seem to get myself in a very musical headspace when I know other people are going to be listening.

Do others have that issue? Any tips on how to make playing feel more like, well, play?

TheBoringPianist

This definitely happens to me as well, especially if I start making mistakes.

I also agree with you that this isn't entirely related to performance anxiety/nerves; I clam up the most when I am playing for my teacher or trying to record myself, but for whatever reason I tend to be much better in live performance. Maybe there's a level of acceptance that "I can't redo any of this even if I wanted to" that triggers the "F it, we ball" response, while keeping me stressed enough that I'm alert and actively engaged in my playing.

On the other hand, I think it's fine if performing for others feels less "play" than playing by youself. The best performance of grief isn't necessarily by the actor/actress that feels the saddest, but the one that conveys it to the audience most effectively. From that lens, maybe "max play" during a performance isn't ideal. It probably makes sense for the most "free" version of play to happen without an audience. That's when you can try all sorts of crazy ideas you have so you can see how they land (note: probably don't do exclusively crazy idea practice). It's kind of like how you do donuts in a snowy parking lot so that you know how far you can actually push your car when you're driving for real. And the more you test those boundaries playing in low-stakes environments the more comfortable you eventually get with those boundaries in front of others.

*apologies for any loopy thoughts, haven't been getting enough sleep with a big launch at work

ShiroKuro

I love this discussion! I also find that the more I focus on avoiding wrong notes, the more musicality suffers.

This is maybe part of the reason I think it’s as important to learn to “play through” music takes as it is to learn to avoid the mistakes.

If we know we can play through a mistake, maybe we won’t stiffen up as much.

It’s also part of why we have to practice for performance after the piece has been (mostly) polished, that’s where we can do the musicality work and try to work on improving accuracy without making musicality suffer in the process…

pianoloverus

TC3 I’ve noticed that when I play piano as a performance – whether for people in a live situation or recording to share online – I’m so focused on playing correctly that it takes all the fun out of it. Not just fun, but the musicality as well. When I play just for myself, I’ll find myself really getting into the music, and expressing myself through the music so much better, but that just disappears when I have an audience of one kind or another.

When one is playing for oneself, one does not need to so concerned about wrong notes or other errors. When one is playing for others, there's just that one opportunity. Ideally, one should try to reach a point of technical mastery where one does not have to be overly concerned about errors but many amateurs may not have the time to get there. As far as really getting into the music when one plays for others, I suspect that some people feel a little awkward about laying bare their emotions.

ranjit

TC3 This might be very scary, but for a couple of months, I performed pieces while keeping a blank mind. Usually I would have a memory slip halfway through and collect myself back somehow within 5-10 seconds. I found that this really worked.

ShiroKuro

pianoloverus When one is playing for others, there's just that one opportunity.

This is one of things that I think was a big cause of my stage fright early on. You got one shot, and if you blow it, that's it. I found that if, in a recital or other performance situation, I could play more than one piece, it always went better. Obviously, you still only have one shot with each piece, but just knowing that I would play two or three pieces seemed to take a lot of pressure off.

Ideally, one should try to reach a point of technical mastery where one does not have to be overly concerned about errors but many amateurs may not have the time to get there.

This is why I think it's incredibly important to learn how to play through mistakes and wrong notes. Certainly, we want to try to eliminate as many errors as possible during practice and polishing, but then also developing the skill to move through/play through a mistake is essential.

ShiroKuro

ranjit This might be very scary, but for a couple of months, I performed pieces while keeping a blank mind. Usually I would have a memory slip halfway through and collect myself back somehow within 5-10 seconds.

😵 that would be really scary!

TC3

pianoloverus As far as really getting into the music when one plays for others, I suspect that some people feel a little awkward about laying bare their emotions.

That's a very good point! I do worry I might look a bit silly ...

TC3

ranjit I'm not sure if I've mentioned this, but I'm a philosophy professor by trade. I just this morning taught my Philosophy of China class, talking about Daoism and Chan Buddhism. I need to practice some "empty mind" techniques!

Jane

ShiroKuro I love this discussion! I also find that the more I focus on avoiding wrong notes, the more musicality suffers.

And now for something even more colorful....

For some years I did competitive pistol shooting.
Not the stand-and-shoot-accurately type, but the run around and shoot a bunch of targets as fast as you can.
Then the score is based on a formula that takes into account both the time and the accuracy.

The debate between "practice slow accuracy and work on speed" versus "practice shooting fast and then try to become more accurate" also exists in that sport. And as in that case, I think with the piano it doesn't need to be restricted to just one or the other.

But the particular point your comment brings to mind is that that sport also has some targets that are supposed to be shot and others which are off-limits. And they may be positioned adjoining each other or even overlapping.

Universally, the advice is to focus on the target you want to hit, not on the target that you're trying not to hit.

I find that translates psychologically to the piano for me. I focus on the notes I want to play, not on avoiding wrong notes.

ranjit

ShiroKuro Yes, but it worked. I tried my best to pretend to be in the practice room or in a dream, and just to hear myself play and not think of the next note. This was also with pieces that were not that well-learned that I had only started learning around 3 weeks prior. Afterwards, some of the people judged me for not playing as well as others, and while I was annoyed, I tried to keep to myself the fact that I was performing with significant handicaps...

danno858

"Universally, the advice is to focus on the target you want to hit, not on the target that you're trying not to hit" - ahh, but that is the definition of the mistake - not hitting the target you were trying to hit!

Jane

danno858 "Universally, the advice is to focus on the target you want to hit, not on the target that you're trying not to hit" - ahh, but that is the definition of the mistake - not hitting the target you were trying to hit!

Well, there are two levels of error available.
Not hitting what one wants to hit is certainly undesirable. (A dropped note. An unshot target).
Not hitting what one wants to hit but instead hitting something unwanted is a double undesirable.

YMMV, but it's definitely something I've noticed. Psychologically it's different -- if one is aiming at what one wants to hit, versus aiming not to hit that which shouldn't be hit.
The focus is on the positive movement, not on the avoidance.

ShiroKuro

Jane I focus on the notes I want to play, not on avoiding wrong notes.

I like this, it's just a slight tweak, but seems quite helpful.

It also aligns with the guidance to not think things like "oh no, here comes the spot I always mess up at," which is basically a self-fulfilling prophecy!

The other day in my lesson, when working on a tricky passage that I often flub, my teacher was talking about just assuming, just believing that I would play it right the first time. (That's connected to the fact that, if I play it several times in a row, I generally play it correctly, it's when I'm playing through the whole piece that I flub).

So she said something like "just don't give yourself permission to do anything other than play it right the first time."

I still haven't figured out how to do that... 😃

ShiroKuro

ranjit just to hear myself play and not think of the next note.

That would make me very nervous! 😃

Jane

ShiroKuro (That's connected to the fact that, if I play it several times in a row, I generally play it correctly, it's when I'm playing through the whole piece that I flub).

I feel yer pain!

I make it a point to spend some time practicing chunks that start far enough before the trouble spot that I'm engrossed in what I've been doing and hit that spot in context, as I would in playing.
That's an extension of the technique of practicing one measure before the spot, the spot, and the next measure following.

Another thing I find helpful is play. (Which just happens to suit the title of this thread!)

In watching some of Ben Laude's videos with Garrick Ohlsson, it's interesting to see Garrick just doodling around on the keyboard while he's talking.
So I've tried some doodling. Just playing with patterns of notes from a difficult or confusing part. Just one hand. Not in tempo. Just like playing with a ball of clay or Silly Putty. Even while casually watching television.
While the Indians consider the hands one of the Karmendriyas... an autonomic sense/mechanism... and that makes perfect sense to me... nevertheless, it's the brain that programs their movements. So I think the more different neural pathways one can travel to teach the hands, the more likely that something will stick.

thepianoplayer416

Playing correctly is important but following the notes exactly can lead to a performance that is mechanical. When we're relaxed, we can hear the music, shape phrases as we're playing.

I belong to a strings ensemble group so don't perform piano music much except in a casual setting like a social gathering or on a public piano. In a performance we have many people sitting in silence watching and listening to everything. We get nervous and start to play wrong notes.

ShiroKuro

Jane I was talking to my teacher about this yesterday, and she talked about how if it’s “easy” to focus on on a section and play it five times in a row correctly, switch things up by playing the section once, then doing something else, or even getting up and stepping away from the piano, and then go back and play that section again. And of course, do that five times (but with the breaks or distractions in between each rep).

In that method of practice, you lose the false benefit of playing the same thing repeatedly in a row, and it’s a better simulation of how you’d play it when playing the entire piece, because essentially you only play that section once in performance.

This is getting us away from the topic of “play” but I thought it was relevant to our sidebar.

TC3

ShiroKuro I do think it's relevant! It reminds me of Chang's Fundamentals book, where he talks about how all practice should be performance. I need to do more of that, for sure.

ShiroKuro

TC3 all practice should be performance.

I wouldn’t say “all,” (in fact I would say there are things we should be doing during practice that we definitely don’t want to do while performing), but absolutely, we need to practice for performance, and practice the way we’ll play when performing. Otherwise we won’t be able to play that way in a performance.